openlp.org 1.0 rc3

edited November -1 in Development

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  • edited July 2007
    OK, I skipped RC2 because of the PowerPoint problems, so here goes for RC3.

    First off, great improvements over the Bible verses, however I'm afraid there is always a "but"...
    • The font size can be a bit small. (For PowerPoint we have to use point size 36 for everyone to see it). I set my font proportion to biggest, but it seems the line breaks occur too late in the line for this to make any impact.
    • I'm afraid that I'm going to get complaints over how the verse numbers are displayed. Can the chapter only be displayed if the chapter actually changes halfway through? Can the verses be displayed as superscript instead of in []? Perhaps put the chapter (and verses) at the bottom with the book name you are currently displaying.
    • My preacher might say "I will now read the first 10 verses of the book of x, chapter y". So I select all 10 verses and they all appear in font size 0 on one slide. It would be great if a configuration option for the number of verses could be specified. So if I asked for 3 verses a slide, you would create 4 pages.
    Powerpoint on the whole works fine for me now. But still a few minor niggles.
    • When loading a PowerPoint (from the file open button on the Presentation tab) we ideally need an hourglass, since there is this unnerving pause when I'm not sure if something is happening.
    • I know (from experience of programming with PowerPoint) that trying to keep the application in sync with what the user may decide to do in the PowerPoint window is difficult, but it would be helpful if a few basic checks are made. E.g. if the PowerPoint window is closed with 'Esc', then check for this and reopen if a slide change is requested in the openlp.org window.
    • When changing the PowerPoint slide, can you update the Congregation screen prior to the operator view. There are times when the slide change has to be instantaneous but at the moment openlp.org appears to be pausing whilst it updates the operator display.
    • When moving from PowerPoint back to a standard song/Bible verse, the PPT application window sometimes appears in front of the openlp.org. Can it be minimized?


    In addition:

    • Pressing "Page Down" from the end of the song/powerpoint doesn't take the user to the next item in the order of service.
    • If would help to highlight the current item in the Order of Service window.


    Sorry it's a bit of a long list, but I just want to say that openlp.org is a great application so I don't want this to come across as too negative! I just want to be able to win over my Church so we can adopt it!

  • edited July 2007
    Another thing... after installing RC3, songs I added to openlp.org seem to have vanished. Installing a new version doesn't overwrite the songs.olp file does it?
  • edited July 2007

    Just a quick reply on one or two of the issues you mentioned:

    You wrote:

    The font size can be a bit small. (For PowerPoint we have to use point size 36 for everyone to see it). I set my font proportion to biggest, but it seems the line breaks occur too late in the line for this to make any impact.

    Which is related to this:

    My preacher might say "I will now read the first 10 verses of the book of x, chapter y". So I select all 10 verses and they all appear in font size 0 on one slide. It would be great if a configuration option for the number of verses could be specified. So if I asked for 3 verses a slide, you would create 4 pages.

    All you need to do is to just select the number of verses you want on a particular slide. We made it more flexible like this because I know that some verses are LONG, and then you have the font size reducing automatically because the program has forced you to have, say, 3 verses on a slide, when this long verse should ideally be by itself.

    You wrote:

    I'm afraid that I'm going to get complaints over how the verse numbers are displayed. Can the chapter only be displayed if the chapter actually changes halfway through? Can the verses be displayed as superscript instead of in []? Perhaps put the chapter (and verses) at the bottom with the book name you are currently displaying.

    We'll have a look at this... Might be able to come up with some options. Unfortunately the superscript is very difficult to achieve, but we might be able to do something else.

  • edited July 2007
    If your songs.olp file already exists, it should ask you when you install it whether or not you want to overwrite it. Make sure you weren't being "trigger happy" and clicking the yes button without reading ;-)
  • edited July 2007
    Erm, as a professional programmer, I can tell you that 99% of users don't read messages when given a box with an OK or NEXT. (no matter how much you plead with them... trust me our company has tried :)


    So please make the default to either:

    1. Keep an existing database (why would someone want to overwrite their own database with an empty one? (Well effectively empty if you belong to a Church that doesn't sing many out of copyright hymns:-)

    2. Or provide no default, with OK greyed out, so the user HAS to read the message and make a choice before continuing.


    (oh, and can't you turn on the Drupal formatting option to preserve blank lines in a posted comment...? I've forever re-editing a file to put in the <BR> tags!)

  • edited July 2007
    Regarding the Bible font size, sorry, but they aren't related. (I may look it, but I'm not that daft :-)

    I get the same issue if I just choose a single verse. The line wrap appears to occur at the same place regardless of how you set the font proportion in the theme editor. From what I can tell, the line break determines the ultimate size of the font.
  • edited July 2007
    OK, here's the problem that I was faced with in developing this feature.  I had to take a 'default' line length 'in terms of words' and then try and manage the height/width ratio to keep the text size to it's maximum.  In the case of lots of shorter words and in the case of longer words the formatting looks a bit dodgy.  Maybe I need to look at numbers of characters per line.  The reason I didn't do this before was for performance reasons.  I'll try and enhance this a bit in RC4. Derek.
  • edited July 2007
    Regarding the superscript, Raoul is right, it will be very difficult to implement.  That is why I didn't do it now.  I felt the best way to show the chapter/verse was with [] so unless there are better idea's I think we'll stick to that.  What I can do is remove intermediate chapters though.  How's that?  Derek.
  • edited July 2007
    Had a quick look at 1.0 rc3 tonight and only found one small problem. Added a bible verse to order of service and then removed it. When I tried to add same verse again it gave an error message saying already in order of service - even when I started a new order of service I got same error. Some how I did get it to accept it - don't know how. When I've tried again at home, just get error message, not matter what I do.
  • edited July 2007

    I can't disable the "yes" button, but I can exclude the songs database from the "upgrade" option.

  • edited July 2007

    Derek tells me he found this bug and has fixed it. The fix will be available in RC4.

  • edited July 2007
    I fully understand the difficulties.



    If I had to choose only a couple of issues from that big list I posted eariler, then I guess they would be:

    • Speed of PowerPoint slide change. Ideally this needs to be instant for the congregation view if possible, rather than the 2s delay I currently get. (It's instant if I operate via PowerPoint directly).
    • Ability to get from one item in the order of service to the next item using a single keystroke, rather than having to use the mouse. (We try to choose our operators on whether they can second-guess where the worship leader is going to go, rather than computer proficiency, and not everyone is comfortable with a mouse whilst 'under pressure'!)
  • edited July 2007
    Had chance to have another look at 1.0 rc3. Just a small point.

    If you blank the screen to the projector and then load a powerpoint presentation, as it loads the projected black screen flashes. Not a problem as such, but could be annoying and distracting

    Great piece of software - keep up the good work.
  • edited July 2007

    You will be happy to know that the Powerpoint issue will get a complete overhaul after version 1.  There is no time for V1 unfortunately.  

    In terms of getting from one item in the OOS to another, I'm not with you 100% there since the up/down arrow keys do that.  Also, as from RC3, when using the hotkeys, when you close a slide, focus changes back to the OOS. Have you tried that?

  • edited July 2007
    I created a Bible CSV file which contained the books 'Psalm' and 'Song of Solomon'.


    The Bible Import option in openlp.org happily imported these (and they are in the .olp file). However when it comes to selecting from these books, I'm guessing it's looking for 'Psalms' and 'Song of Songs' instead, since nothing appears.


    If the names of the books are important, please could the Bible Import validate them, just so the user may be aware that there is something wrong with the CSV file?


    (Although for internationalization and to take into account extra books (e.g. the Apocrypha) would it be better to populate the dropdown list of books from the database instead?)

  • edited July 2007
    Also I've just noticed that the book of Philemon is out of sequence in the dropdown list of Bible books. It should be after Titus, rather than at the end.
  • edited July 2007
    If a bible verse has "double quotes" in it, then these double quotes mysteriously vanish and no word wrap occurs for the text that was within the now absent double quotes.


    So if the quoted text has about 32 words in it (For example, Genesis 1v28 NKJV) then the font size is unreadably small since the whole quote appears on one line with no breaks.

  • edited July 2007
    OK forgetting PowerPoint for now, this is just songs.
    If I use the up/down keys as you suggest then all that happens is the scroll bars for the "Live" mini-windows up and down. I have to use Page Up/Page Down to change verses.

    If at the end of the song, I page down again then nothing happens. It is at this point that I would like a keystroke to go to the next song (rather than pressing tab several times to get to the OOS window).


    Going back to the PowerPoint, glad to you see are planning an overhaul. I did take a quick look at the code and noticed that the PowerPoint slide change API call did occur before the preview screens, so don't know why it actually happens the other way around. (Unless it needs a Application.ProcessMessages or something after the call).

  • edited August 2007
    [quote=gushie]
    (Although for internationalization and to take into account extra books (e.g. the Apocrypha) would it be better to populate the dropdown list of books from the database instead?)
    [/quote]
    I fully agree to that, since we (in Germany) have the German book titles in the cvs and after converting it to olp it can`t be opened.

    another option would be to number the books instead of naming them (like the people on biblegateway.com do).
  • edited August 2007
    We have two graphic adaptors in our presentation computer at church.
    Initially, the second card was for the monitor and the first for the presentation.





    Unfortunately this didnt work, since openlp did not show up the presentation screen on the first monitor. after switching these two, it worked.






    can someone confirm this behaviour?
  • edited August 2007
    Trinity used OpenLP yesterday for the first time and it was very successfull.
    We have found a new of small issues which I do not think have been logged anywhere else.



    1) On adding a new song in Classic mode I got an error "No all fields entered" and the dialog closed losing the edits. Good job I was using cut and paste to load the songs.

    2) In the Order of Service Window it the song was edited then it needed to be re-added to the order of service to pick up the changes. This seemed a pain as we were playing with formatting.



    I have seen other comments about consistent sizeing across songs. I would agree that would be great.



    Also having some way to indicate (Male/Female) would be a nice to have - post 1.0 if it could be done. I accept this is heading towards text formatting which may be a step to far.

  • edited August 2007

    We know about bug #1 there, and if I remember correctly, there's a fix in the works.

    As for #2, I don't remember seeing this the last time I used openlp.org, but then again I was using the latest development build, so it might have been fixed. I'll add it to the list of bugs and check if it exists and fix it if necessary.

    "Also having some way to indicate (Male/Female) would be a nice to have"  - not sure what you mean there...

  • edited August 2007
    Thanks for the update.
    As regards Male/Female what I meant was there are songs like "I will call upon the Lord" where there is a Male part followed by a Female part in response. This may go on for a number of lines till both parts sing the last line of the verse.

    If one used PowerPoint (as we do at present) we would color code the text. In Openlp we do not have mechanism to do this.

    I hope this is clear. If not I can upload an example powerpoint.
  • edited August 2007

    I think in this case most churches (well, ours anyway) show something like this:

    (Ladies:) We sing
    (Men:) Hallelujah

  • edited August 2007

    I've had something like this happen before. It was a problem with Windows, but it eventually came right.

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